My wife won’t watch the news with me anymore. Apparently, my habit of talking back to the TV during reports on court cases is a little less than endearing. I just can’t help it, though- media reports on legal issues tend to range from slightly misleading to blatantly incorrect, and that drives me batty.
TechCrunch posted a piece yesterday regarding a decision by the Ontario Highway Transport Board to shut down PickupPal.com, a web-based ride sharing service that was operating in Ontario. Here’s how it was summarized:
“The bus companies freaked and sued under an Ontario law that limits carpoolers to traveling only from home to work and back, riding with the same driver every day and paying only by the week, among other restrictions. This is despite the fact that the government has spent “billions” in carpooling lanes.”
The article also quoted from PickupPal:
“Well we got our ruling from the Ontario Highway Transportation Board (OHTB) and they say that it is illegal to Rideshare in Ontario, (here is the official decision [PDF 0.98 MB]).
The only way you can ride with someone is if you meet ALL of the following extremely impractical set of specific criteria:
* You must travel from home to work only - (Not Home to School, or Home to the Hospital or the Airport)
* You cannot cross municipal boundaries - (Live outside the city and drive in - sorry you cannot share the ride with your neighbour)
* You must ride with the same driver each day - (Want to mix it up go with one person one day and another person another day - no sorry cannot do that - must be same person each day)
* You must pay the driver no more frequently than weekly - (Neighbour drives you to work better not pay her right away just in case she drives you later on in the week)”
If this were a TV broadcast, this is right about the time when my wife would get up and leave the room to let me rant about the numerous inaccuracies with my cats, Solicitor Fluffypants and Barrister Mr. Awesome. And believe me, there are a bunch of them (inaccuracies, not cats).
Put simply, the summaries provided by TechCrunch and PickupPal are wrong. They might make for good inflammatory blogging, but so do stories about unicorns attacking leprechauns. Neither have a basis in reality. Each and every point in the PickupPal summary quoted above is inaccurate, half truths at best and intentional deceptions at worst.
Here’s how the law actually works- the starting point is that you’re more or less free to drive whomever you, want wherever you want. The iron fist of the Ontario government (in the form of the Public Vehicles Act, or PVA) only creeps in when you carry passengers between cities or towns AND you’re receiving compensation in exchange. If you’re carpooling solely within a single city, or if you’re not being compensated for driving, there’s no issue with the PVA. I suspect this would cover the majority of carpoolers, who arrange to share rides with co-workers, neighbors and friends and take turns driving back and forth. Nothing has changed for these people, and nothing will.
But what happens if you’re crossing municipal boundaries and being compensated for doing so, either through money, coffee, sex, drugs, or rock n’ roll? This is where the definition of a “carpool vehicle” kicks in to save you, as the PVA provides that it doesn’t apply to any carpool vehicle within this definition. If you fit within this exception, you’re a-okay. If not, you’re screwed. To be considered a carpool vehicle, you must:
- Have a seating capacity of less than 12 people (buses and Canyoneros need not apply);
- Not be paid by your passengers more than once a week (payment “per trip” is not permitted); and
- Not take passengers on any more than one round trip per day (a trip to work, to the mall, to the grocery store and back home is okay; a series of trips to and fro isn’t).
PickupPal got in trouble because it was arranging transportation between cities (in fact, between provinces in some cases) in exchange for compensation on a “per trip” basis, and the vehicles being used were therefore considered to be “public vehicles”. Their troubles didn’t arise because of a conspiracy against carpooling, nor did it come from an obscure interpretation of some antiquated laws. The OHTB has dealt with this issue before (and fairly recently, at that) and the law is far from vague.
Let’s be clear: you can still carpool to your heart’s delight. You can drive your neighbor to the airport and he can buy you a coffee. You can drive your neighbor to Montreal and he can buy you a steak, or a whole cow, for that matter. Or cash in lieu of cattle, whatever. What you can’t do is receive compensation for individual rides for inter-city trips. At that point you’re no longer ride sharing, you’re ride selling and operating a public transportation service. If that’s what you want to do, you need to jump through all the hoops that every other public transportation service has to go through, and the public has a right to expect that individuals operating such ventures are properly insured, inspected, and licensed. The Public Vehicles Act isn’t an attack on carpooling, it’s an attempt to control unscrupulous drivers seeking to make a quick buck at the cost of public safety.
That is not to say that the current law is perfect- it’s not, and it may need to be updated to make allowances for ride sharing services that fall outside the current exemptions, while maintaining public protections. That’s why the Ontario government has already introduced legislation to make such allowances and permit ride sharing provided that the driver is only collecting money to cover expenses, not to turn a profit. However, even under a revised law it is likely that PickupPal will encounter trouble unless it tightens up its service quite a bit.
PickupPal offers a unique service that is useful and needed across the country, but it needs to operate within the existing legal framework, and where this is unsatisfactory, it needs to work to have it changed. Ironically, I fully support PickupPal and think that the government needs to address this issue. However, spreading falsehoods and misinformation about the current law does little to help its case. Doing so stifles informed debate on the subject, causes confusion and uncertainty, and annoys Solicitor Fluffypants to boot.
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Solicitor Fluffypants! I love it!
Your explanation makes a hell of a lot more sense than those other ones- essentially, what they’re saying is that you can’t turn ‘carpooling’ into a taxi service, right?
Nice post I love the yelling at the TV part. You are correct - the reason why we got in trouble is that we were found to have facilitated an illegal carpooling arrangement under the current laws - “No person shall arrange or offer to arrange transportation of passengers by means of a public vehicle operated by another person unless that other person is the holder of an operating licence authorizing that other person to perform the transportation”.
It was an illegal carpool because there was compensation and because it crossed municipal boundaries. And your example of driving your neighbour to the airport really is wrong - look at page two of this document - taken from the Allo Stop decision (http://www.pickuppal.com/save/blog/res/WeirFoulds-Response.pdf). Home to work - not Home to the airport. If you take the ruling out of context of previous rulings then you too are not doing the proper due diligence.
It is great that you are passionate about the law and being accurate, I wholeheartedly support that. And I really am not trying to get into a pissing contest over legal matters because clearly you know more about it than I do. I create startups and am trying to figure out a way to get people to ride together and cut down on CO2. You can believe that our not but that is where I am coming from. Maybe you could look over the AlloStop ruling in the PDF above and make sense of it all.
I really liked your post and I am happy to see that you get so revved up - just like my father in-law (he’s from Stephenville Crossing).
Cheers - Eric
PickupPal
Ohh sorry and just one quickie on your last comment - “it needs to work to have it changed”. The sad truth is if you don’t make it an issue of it then the government will not move on it. Writing to the government asking them to change the laws does not work - http://www.pickuppal.com/save/blog/res/The-Question-Asked.pdf. It is a complicated issue for sure and one that is very hard to cram into a sound bite.
Thanks for letting me post my comments to your blog.
Cheers - Eric
Eric, thanks so much for stopping by and posting. I’ll be the first to admit that I do get worked up at times, and I’m glad you added your viewpoint. As I wrote before, I think PickupPal is a great concept, but I just get a little annoyed when some bloggers portray the decision as outlawing carpooling. I’m a stickler for those details.
Without getting too much into the legal debate, I’ve seen the Allo Stop decision and I don’t read it as restricting carpooling to home to work trips, although the tribunal did look at this as being a factor in deciding whether Allo Stop was actually engaged in a carpool. It’s not a necessary factor, but one that can be considered (and for what it’s worth, I think the tribunal went too far in that decision). Even aside from this, if the airport is in the same municipality it doesn’t matter, as the PVA provisions don’t apply.
As for working to change the law to allow for more innovative ride sharing solutions, you’re absolutely right that just writing letters and making phone calls won’t make a huge difference, and it’s too bad that you had to go through everything that you have to get this issue on the radar. I commend you for making an issue out of this and hope that the Ontario government will follow through and change things. We need regulation of public carriers to protect people from some of the more unscrupulous operators, but ride sharing programs definitely have a place in reducing emissions (and traffic congestion!).
Best of luck with things as they move along, and thanks again for commenting.
You have a good eye and a sharp mind for piecing this all together and your interpretation may very well be correct. All I know was in the hearing they referred to the definition of a commuter and were pretty adamant that it was from home to work and kept harping on it. Where that definition is - I don’t know - I am sure somewhere in some document it is defined. Every jurisdiction has to deal with the threat of illegal buses and bandit cabs and they do a good job of controlling it by having a simple compensation test. You can recoup a reasonable amount of the costs of the trip but cannot make a profit.
In any event the entire process gives me a massive headache - you feel like you are banging your head against the wall when your intent is to make a difference and help people and instead are faced with this kind of crap with bureaucracy.
I know it is early but have a great weekend and again thank you for engaging in this debate.
Cheers - Eric
What your analysis misses is that the question should not be whether some of the rides arranged on pickuppal violate that law.
The problem with this ruling is that pickuppal is not involved in the transactions. They are a bulletin board, a database, where people wanting rides can meet up with people offering them.
In this sense they have many similarities to craigslist or other sites. And indeed there is a rideshare section on craigslist too.
Take a look at http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/rid/
Does this have to be shut down as well? Some of the rides there specify prices, they are the same sort of rides you say are illegal.
This is a free speech issue, not simply a carpooling issue.
Brad, you make a couple of good points.
Based on my understanding (and the Board’s understanding) of how the PickupPal system works, they fit within the broad definition of “arranging” under the PVA. With Craigslist and other online classifieds it becomes a little more difficult to fit them within the definition, because there is no active matching or arranging. I definitely see your point, though- there’s a real slippery slope here.
I also agree with you that there is a broader free speech issue here. Should merely providing a forum for individuals to arrange rides or exchange other services be considered “arranging” or attract any other sort of liability? I don’t think so, but the fact is that the law as currently worded is broad enough to capture this. My post wasn’t concerned with what the law should be, but rather what it is. The question of what the law should be? Well, that’s a topic for another day!
Thanks for stopping by and adding your comments. Healthy debate is good for everyone!
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